Monday, May 22, 2006

The State of the Undies

After the dissolution of a relationship, it’s quite natural to reflect upon the condition of one’s undies. In fact, I’m beginning to suspect that if I had truly taken stock of the state of my undergarments, I might have foreseen what was about to come undone.

My underwear has been growing obsolete, nearly antique, and more to the point, I’ve prided myself on my un-trendy nature, seeing this as a sign that I’m not seduced by consumerism, among other things, to wear the latest lace-infested frilly thrill.

However, the other day, I found myself venturing into “Intimates” deep inside a department store. I quickly got lost among the stealthy under-wire and powerful push-ups, and only after a grueling expedition did I uncover the tiny rack of “natural” brassieres, which came in white and white.

Along my journey, I did don a few brawny bras. Since I was surrounded by their padded power, I feared a backlash if I ignored them entirely. But in the dressing room, I wondered:

If a man were to clasp me to his chest, holding me close, he could hardly compliment me on my bosom. No, he would be forced to utter: “What a magnificent bra you have! Who manufactured it?” Or if he didn’t know any better, he might inquire: “Are you wearing a bullet-proof vest?”

As you can see, Dear Readers, my mind has been preoccupied by questions of such import and magnitude these past days I’ve been away from you.

Please know that I’ve nothing against “pretty panties” (several cheered and amused me with their utter frivolity), but I’d like the freedom to choose comfort over crowd-pleasing cup-lets.

Are my Freedoms more important to me than Intimacies? Growing up, I witnessed an unbalanced marriage in which one held the key while the other sang like a caged bird, and in current events, I’ve watched Cindy Sheehan’s husband file for divorce after she started her “unseemly” protests against the war.

So will I (can I) conceal my unruly opinions, political power and artistic passions behind embroidery and lace?

In the end, I hope all of us take a stand, speak our minds, and cry out our truth, even when our truth is not cute and comes in only one color. Even at the risk of sending our underwear into sheer disrepair.

41 repartee:

Blogger Golgotha_Tramp wrote...

Well Done FG! I am with you all the way (although most of my bra's are black, as are most of my clothes)

I do think that it's scary how "fake" our world is becoming and even worse how not being fake doesn't make you grounded or down to earth but "strange" or "tragic." I feel the same about make-up, I loathe to wear it and do so as little as possible but when you tell someone they automatically leap to your aid offering make over and to "show you how it's done." Not one of these people thinks that I may not like make-up! I have done make-up for photo shoots and theatrical performances, I am a dab hand and "face painting." I thank them kindly and refuse but often wonder if they would like it if I offered some "friendly advice" on the shade of their eye shadow or tell them how to neaten up their sloppy eyeliner line.

I remember in a film called "the mirror has two faces" there's a bit where the female lead is asked why she doesn't wear make-up she replies

"what's the point? it's just me in technicolour"

this always stuck with me and I agree, when you think of these "painted ladies" you remember that all of their life they must maintain the charade or be discovered as a fraud with panda eyes, uneven skin and a flat chest.

5/22/2006 6:39 AM  
Blogger Leesa wrote...

you know, I do have colored bras but most of them are quite plain. I change colors to suit my clothes. But I do own some pretty underwear, but I wear them for, um, special occasions.

5/22/2006 9:34 AM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Golgotha!!!

What a great comment! You’ve really hit the nail on the head.

“when you think of these ‘painted ladies’ you remember that all of their life they must maintain the charade or be discovered as a fraud with panda eyes, uneven skin and a flat chest.”

Yes, I thought ultra-padded bras were a thing of the past, er, circa 1950! What happened to the “natural woman” and to loving our bodies, ourselves?!

You’re right about makeup being the same deal, and you make an excellent point about “friendly advice!” I get that all the time, too. I have a pale complexion and so many women seem to want to blush-me-up! But hey, what if I like the ghostly look?! - ;)

Oh, and that Barbara Streisand Technicolor line is perfect!

P.S. I love black clothes, too, which definitely lend themselves well to black bra straps! - :)

5/22/2006 9:39 AM  
Blogger spo0nman wrote...

How is "true love" hunting going? :)

I was always curious about women and their undies, and what makes underwear such an interesting subject?

An ex put it this way, "It is a way for me to look in the mirror and see that I look nice, if there is no money, no boyfriend, no love, I can still look at myself looking good and feel better." Perhaps, the frills are explained.

All of us seem to understand "truth" in our specific way, the way we delt with tricky situations in life and the path we chose when we were forced to choose.

Your truth and my truth can be very different and we both could be right in our own right. Who are we to judge the life others live? I know I'm not perfect and I don't live to be, but before we start pointing fingers, lets make sure our hands are clean.

5/22/2006 9:48 AM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Leesa!

Hey, bras of all colors, shapes and sizes are welcome here! - :)

And I do understand the, um, “special occasion” clause. I couldn’t help but laugh over a few brassieres and see the, er, entertainment value.

It’s choice and comfort I desire (I believe a study once suggested a correlation between under-wires and breast cancer, but I’ll have to look this up!)

Thanks so much for contributing!

5/22/2006 9:52 AM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, spo0nman!

Please know this essay is not meant as a judgment upon those who wear and enjoy elaborate underwear. It’s more a question of choice (as I noted above to Leesa).

“An ex put it this way, "It is a way for me to look in the mirror and see that I look nice, if there is no money, no boyfriend, no love, I can still look at myself looking good and feel better." Perhaps, the frills are explained.”

In my “ideal world,” I would love this ex to glimpse herself in the mirror without all the “trimmings” and still feel really good about herself and her body. But I understand that my “ideal world” is not necessarily hers or yours - or even my own reality!

I’m not entirely free from the pressures to fit into the norm or form of beauty, as society dictates.

Thank you for sharing your opinion with us. I appreciate your point of view.

5/22/2006 10:07 AM  
Blogger Bored Dominatrix wrote...

OK, another Mormon reference: but when you reach adulthood in Mormonism, you are supposed to "go through the temple," at which point you begin wearing special underwear, aka "the temple garment," which I discuss here. Then, if you ever leave the church or become "unworthy" to go to the temple, you have to quit wearing said temple garments.

So at 21 I started wearing this new, unflattering, not particularly comfortable kind of underwear. And at 26 I had to stop. And even though the underwear I'd worn for five years was unflattering and uncomfortable, I'd gotten used to it, and I wasn't thrilled to discover the ways in which regular underwear was uncomfortable.

And then at some point I realized that underwear was optional. All of it.

Yes, there are times when it's not quite wise or appropriate to go braless. But if I can get away with it, I do. Same goes for knickers.

I recommend the practice.

5/22/2006 10:27 AM  
Blogger mysticgypsy wrote...

Hi Frankengirl :D!!!!!!!!!!
How lovely it is to see another post of yours!! I've so missed the great discussions on your blog!!!

My comment might be slightly off topic so I apologize.

Spoonman wrote: "An ex put it this way...... no boyfriend, no love, I can still look at myself looking good and feel better."

Why is it that not having a boyfriend or love is so upsetting for people?
Can they not find satisfaction in their friends or their work? If not, does this mean the latter will never be enough? Or does this mean they are in the wrong sort of work or have the wrong sort of friends?

5/22/2006 11:44 AM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Holly!

You bring up such an interesting topic - religion dictating our underwear. This strikes me as such an invasion of privacy! Though of course, I’m aware that there are many religions which dictate far more than one’s clothing.

How disappointed you must have been to find that “normal” underwear has its own drawbacks!

“Yes, there are times when it's not quite wise or appropriate to go braless. But if I can get away with it, I do. Same goes for knickers”

Hehe! Yes, I go braless, too, when it’s feasible - ;)

5/22/2006 1:00 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Aww, MysticGypsy, thank you for your warm greeting! How I have missed you all - :D

“Why is it that not having a boyfriend or love is so upsetting for people? Can they not find satisfaction in their friends or their work?”

Good questions! I believe we live in a society that is more comfortable with couples than individuals. The conservative politicians often speak of “family values,” as if it is our moral duty to create a family in a particular shape or mold.

From my own personal experience - in the past, when I’ve showed disinterest in a particular man, I’ve sometimes been called a dyke. The concept here is that if you are not with a man, you are a man-hater or lesbian or maladjusted.

But more importantly, I remember a time in my life when all my friends were marrying, and what used to be my “family of friends” seemed to be dispersing into tiny units of two, then three (with baby). I felt a loss and questioned my single lifestyle.

And of course, parents can add to the pressure to couple. I remember my mother worrying over me finding a man to “take care of me.” Alas, Poor Mom!

“Or does this mean they are in the wrong sort of work or have the wrong sort of friends?”

I think having the “right sort of work” is key. If you love what you do, if you have an outlet for your passions, then you’re more likely, I think, to feel deep satisfaction with or without a lover in your life.

:)

5/22/2006 1:25 PM  
Blogger Cristina wrote...

Oh, how I relate to your quest. I also have trouble finding suitable bras because I don't like all those wire-y, spongy things. I have one of those and have only used it once.

I guess people would rather be busty than comfortable. Me, I'm the opposite.

I have loved reading both the post and the comments. Honestly, I never knew so many interesting things could spring from such a thing as underwear :D

PS. Nice to see you back to posting, FrankenGirl!

5/22/2006 1:47 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Cristina!

So nice to see you, too! - :D

“I also have trouble finding suitable bras because I don't like all those wire-y, spongy things. I have one of those and have only used it once.”

Ah, it’s so good to know I’m not alone in my quest! Years ago, I bought a lovely lacey thing, and when I tried it on at home, it itched my butt, and that was the end of that!

“Honestly, I never knew so many interesting things could spring from such a thing as underwear”

Oh, you clever commenters always raise the bar for me - :)

5/22/2006 2:21 PM  
Blogger JLB wrote...

From Braless in the Forest

Greetings FrankenGirl – it’s good to hear from you again! I agree with you completely that the ideal would be for women to be able to view themselves sans frills, and see their own true beauty.

I haven’t worn makeup, shaved my legs/armpits, or worn a bra since I was seventeen. None of this was meant as any great political statement, I just realized after three years of trying these things, that I hated every one of them! I gave up disposable “feminine hygiene products” shortly thereafter in exchange for organic cotton washable pads (http://www.gladrags.com/). None of these western feminine standards agreed with my body or lifestyle, and I have never missed them. (TMI?)

It’s fun to wear pretty, crazy, frilly undergarments, but completely unpractical (at least for me), unless all I want to do is lounge around in bed and look beautiful. Lace and nylon do not feel good when I throw on my boots and go outside for a hike or a hard day’s work on the wood pile (or simply commuting and working in a cube for ten hours).

To each her/his own, of course. I am of a strong mind to be true to oneself FrankenGirl (to borrow from Hamlet), and I echo you in harmony:

In the end, I hope all of us take a stand, speak our minds, and cry out our truth, even when our truth is not cute and comes in only one color.

AMEN! And sometimes, doing so requires a leap of faith, or at the very least a stretch of our inner strength to rise to the occasion.

As to your question, however rhetorical: So will I (can I) conceal my unruly opinions, political power and artistic passions behind embroidery and lace? I say: please don’t! You deserve friends who value you for all your recalcitrance, uniqueness, strength, and practicality!

PS - Cristina, speaking as a woman whose loves to be braless and loathes the thought of wearing one, I too am all about the comfort (and incidentally, I’m also about the environment). If you’re interested, this is where I buy almost all of my staple clothing (including my organic cotton undies), and the first if not the only place I’d ever look if I had some reason to want to purchase a bra:

Rawganique, home page:
http://rawganique.com/

Rawganique, Women’s Wear Page 2 (start of bras and undies)
http://rawganique.com/womenswear2.htm

5/22/2006 3:27 PM  
Blogger Marti wrote...

How wonderful to see you again!

I am old enough to have gone through multiple undie phases. I can remember women wearing "bullet brassieres" that made their chest stand out like a ship’s masthead, to the hippie braless days, to uncomfortable underwires worn during cleavage season. These days, I usually choose comfort, and function over form. But there is something magical about slipping into a sexy, lacy/racy lil’ somethin’ that still warms my soul LOL

FINALLY got you added to my blogroll! (I’m fine-tuning it LOL) Best wishes to you darlin’!

Marti
enterthelaughter.com

5/23/2006 10:52 AM  
Blogger Charlie wrote...

Uh, uh . . . never mind. I'll come back next week. *blush*

5/23/2006 11:47 AM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hey there, Braless & Comfy in the Forest!!! (aka JLB)

“I am of a strong mind to be true to oneself”

Yes! And I’m so glad to hear you’ve chosen a path that suits you!

“It’s fun to wear pretty, crazy, frilly undergarments, but completely unpractical (at least for me), unless all I want to do is lounge around in bed and look beautiful.”

Um, isn’t this what most women do all day long???! - :P

“You deserve friends who value you for all your recalcitrance, uniqueness, strength, and practicality!”

Aww, so sweet! Thanks - :) Oh, and thanks for the great links too!

5/23/2006 1:14 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Marti! Always a pleasure!

Thank you for mapping a bit o’ history for us! I love your description: “ship’s masthead” and “cleavage season!” Haha!

“But there is something magical about slipping into a sexy, lacy/racy lil’ somethin’ that still warms my soul”

If it warms your soul, darlin’, enjoy every bit of it!!!

(and thanks for adding me - :)

5/23/2006 1:20 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Pooper, I’m surprised at you! Blushing?!

After reading your ditty, I should think this topic would be right up your alley - :P

5/23/2006 1:23 PM  
Blogger Sven wrote...

"So will I (can I) conceal my unruly opinions, political power and artistic passions behind embroidery and lace?"

I know I do!

5/23/2006 7:21 PM  
Blogger actonbell wrote...

I didn't feel this way when I was younger, but for some reason, I now enjoy pretty panties--but they have to be comfortable! I'm not into lace, either, but I must admit that I've fallen in love with wild designs, such as Victoria Secret's Pink collection. But I don't go in there unless I have a good coupon, because I'm also a tightwad about underwear. Oh, and I don't pad, either. I'm very small busted, and it's never bothered me.

One thing I am conflicted about is make-up--this is another thing I didn't do at all when I was young, but now I'm starting to feel dowdy without it, probably because more and more women are SO made-up.

I don't like the fake look, either. I do struggle with this issue--good post!

5/23/2006 8:20 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Sven - Haaaaa! Oh, you have truly made my day! :D

5/23/2006 10:09 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

ActonBell – Hi! I think it’s really hard not to feel conflicted in this society (unless, of course, you’re surrounded by nature and Braless in the Forest!).

“I must admit that I've fallen in love with wild designs”

Very cool! And it’s really interesting to me how you mention how your views have changed at different times in your life. I expect that is/will be true of others here, too.

Makeup is far more challenging because it’s outerwear; the face we show to the world. So there’s a lot more pressure, as you note, especially when we’re surrounded by made-up faces. For me, there are definitely occasions where makeup is useful!

“I'm also a tightwad about underwear.”

Okay, I don’t know why, but this really made me laugh! - :)

Thanks!

5/23/2006 10:13 PM  
Blogger The Poodle's Friend wrote...

Oh, frankengirl! I know you're back when I can read a serious post about bras. It's a special skill that you have, making interesting points out of things like underwear. THANK YOU!
I don't like bras. They're annoying and uncomfortable. Like most of the commenters, I only wear them if it's strictly necessary. I don't own much in the way of 'sexy' underwear either, mostly because there's no-one to enjoy it. However, I've recently realised that I most certainly do not need someone to enjoy my sexy underwear. I am quite enough. So I wear it if it makes me feel pretty. HA.

Obladi, oblada, life goes on, bra...

Oh dear. I'm slipping into insanity. It must be post-exam craziness.

5/24/2006 4:26 AM  
Blogger Golgotha_Tramp wrote...

I must say I'm real jealous of all of you who say they don't wear bras! I wish I could but alas it would result in black eyes!

Also bras without underwiring are uncomfortable for me. Maybe this isn't just a bra thing, it's a bust thing. But as fashion doesn't think about different shapes and sizes only the "right" shape, it's "everyone gets the same and sucks if it's not right."

5/24/2006 7:37 AM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Poodle!

“However, I've recently realised that I most certainly do not need someone to enjoy my sexy underwear. I am quite enough. So I wear it if it makes me feel pretty. HA.”

You are MORE than enough!!! And what I especially love about your comment is that – it strikes me that how our undergarments make US feel is the most important factor here.

“Obladi, oblada, life goes on, bra...”

Um, er, get well soon? - :P

Glad to hear for you, sane or not!

5/24/2006 12:57 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Golgotha!!!

Yes, you make such a good point! Clearly some of us need more “support” than others - ;) And so, going braless isn’t necessarily a comfortable option!

“But as fashion doesn't think about different shapes and sizes only the ‘right’ shape, it's ‘everyone gets the same and sucks if it's not right.’”

Yes! This concept of the “right shape” is very disturbing. And also annoying when searching for any clothing. Designers seem to echo each other and create clothing solely for their models (rather than “real” people). Where are the true inventors?

Going off on a tangent here, I can’t stand that jeans come in a size “0.” What the %#!???. Just think of the implications: measuring zero, nothing, nada, nonexistence, anorexic…?

:)

5/24/2006 1:12 PM  
Blogger mysticgypsy wrote...

"I can’t stand that jeans come in a size “0.”"
Out of curiosity, I was wondering if men's jeans came in a size 0. I feel like having a size 0 for women is statement that has larger implications. The nothingness of the number is disturbing..

5/24/2006 2:10 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, MysticGypsy - :)

As far as I've seen, men's jeans go by actual waist size, i.e. 34, 36, 38, etc. (followed by length). But anyone may feel free to correct me.

And YES! I agree with you that there are "larger implications" here and the "nothingness of the number" zero is disturbing to me as well.

Why would any woman want to be a zero? And how can any woman physically be a zero? Argh.

5/24/2006 2:22 PM  
Blogger Panacea wrote...

I, like all of the other people on this comments board am insanely delighted that you're back with another one of those wonderfully insightful posts of yours. You also happen to be the only person I know who can relate women's underwear to politics, gender roles, philosophy and other issues that are beyond the comprehension of my tiny mind :)

What I love about this post is that I can totally relate to it. Most of my underwear happens to be monochrome too. I never really saw the point of frills and lace on your underwear unless you have someone to appreciate it. Also, when you do actually have someone to appreciate it, the whole point of wearing it is to take it out, right? So the whole point of having coloured, frilly underwear in the first place, is lost.

You should hear me whinge about underwire. I hate it. I absolutely detest it. It is the most uncomfortable thing one can wear.

I must admit, I normally don't ever have time for makeup however much I would like to wear it because I'm ALWAYS running late.

Sidenote - OOooh, when I was in America last summer, I saw those size zero clothes that you're talking about and had the exact same thought - Why would any woman want to be a zero?

5/24/2006 4:59 PM  
Blogger JLB wrote...

Golgotha_Tramp, you DO make a good point. I realize that I'm able to go free-boobing around with my “barely a’s”, but a couple of my dearest friends would be in a lot of pain trying to do the same with their big, beautiful breasts.

And FrankenGirl, your comment to ActonBell about being unconflicted gave me pause (after I laughed at your tip of the cap)... I thought that perhaps I should add that I went through a very difficult period in my life where I feared that others would only love me and find beauty in me if I did all the appropriately feminine things, wore makeup and lingerie and feminine clothing.

For some women, these sorts of things are a part of who they are, I completely respect that! For me though, it took some serious soul-searching to come back to the realization that it’s just not me, and never will be, and that I had to trust that people would love me with or without the frills.

In truth, I had help getting here from some very dear friends. These are issues that I believe most all women have to address in their lives. I’d like to echo others who have commented, and thank you for the thoughtful post.

5/24/2006 8:58 PM  
Blogger Sophia wrote...

Gosh, I truly don't know what to add here! I believe one should wear underwear - comfortable, lacy or otherwise - for oneself. But I think if two people are really in love, even an old pair of white cotton panties is sexy! (And they will come off pretty quickly at that stage anyway.)

I've just made myself blush...

I agree with The Poodle's Friend - only you could take a subject like undies and make it so interesting and intellectual!!

I'm glad you're back. :)

5/25/2006 9:43 AM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Panacea! I am “insanely delighted” to see you - :)

“Also, when you do actually have someone to appreciate it, the whole point of wearing it is to take it out, right? So the whole point of having coloured, frilly underwear in the first place, is lost.”

Haha! What a practical young woman you are! Just cut to the chase, eh?

“You should hear me whinge about underwire. I hate it. I absolutely detest it. It is the most uncomfortable thing one can wear.”

I have to agree, but Golgotha has illuminated the essential fact that breast-size may impact comfort here.

Well, you’ve reminded me that I was going to look up the correlation between Underwire and Breast Cancer. There is a book called: Dressed to Kill by
Singer and Grismaijer, but apparently, their studies remain controversial and unsubstantiated.

Hopefully, my link will work:
Dressed to Kill

“Sidenote - OOooh, when I was in America last summer, I saw those size zero clothes that you're talking about and had the exact same thought - Why would any woman want to be a zero?

If you have a sec, tell us how women’s jeans are sized in Italy. I’m curious to know how Europeans treat this matter!

You running late? Hmmm, I do remember hearing this about you, but I can’t remember from who, from where - :D

5/25/2006 12:30 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hello, JLB! Welcome back - :D

“I thought that perhaps I should add that I went through a very difficult period in my life where I feared that others would only love me and find beauty in me if I did all the appropriately feminine things, wore makeup and lingerie and feminine clothing.”

I’m really glad you added this for us. I can certainly say I have experienced these fears, and ultimately, I appreciate how you emphasize that the journey is really toward what is comfortable and right for us, whatever that may be.

Thank you for coming back and sharing more on this! I learn so much from you all, including new expressions, like...

“free-boobing around”

Love it.

5/25/2006 12:49 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Sophia!

“I believe one should wear underwear - comfortable, lacy or otherwise - for oneself.”

Ah, I think you just summed this up very nicely for us! (We just need to let the designers and manufacturers in on our little secret. Women have varied bodies and varied tastes. One size/style does not fit all.)

“But I think if two people are really in love, even an old pair of white cotton panties is sexy! (And they will come off pretty quickly at that stage anyway.)"

This is very sweet! No need to blush, but if you must, the Admiral will join you - ;)

Thank you, as ever, for joining in.

5/25/2006 12:59 PM  
Blogger Kyahgirl wrote...

Hi Frankengirl-I've snuck in a few times to watch your dog, napping on the bed. Glad you're done resting and have come back with another great post.

Most of my points have been covered but I wanted to also add my bafflement with the whole fake thing. I try to wear comfortable undies over frilly. My skin is easily irritated. But now, I do find that I have more money, its a treat to buy nicer stuff or even, *gasp* matching tops and bottoms. I never used to give that a second thought.

This topic relates to self esteem. There is a very powerful exercise I learned when I read Nathaneiel Brandon's "psychology of self esteem". You stand in front of a mirror, naked, every day, and look at yourself. You tell yourself you love yourself. Its very hard to do. Many people loath their bodies. Brandon's premise is that until you figure out where you are, and accept where you are, you can't really move on to some place different.

Its very effective!

5/25/2006 3:02 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Kyahgirl! I’m glad you snuck on over here.

“But now, I do find that I have more money, its a treat to buy nicer stuff or even, *gasp* matching tops and bottoms.”

Good for you - :)

Thank you for explaining Nathaniel Branden’s exercise. I like it – because I don’t think we should shy away from ourselves, but as you say, accept and admire our own amazing humanity and awesome uniqueness and the “landscape” of our bodies.

Here is one of my favorite poems by Gerard Manley Hopkins:

Pied Beauty

Glory be to God for dappled things—
For skies of couple-colour as a brinded cow;
For rose-moles all in stipple upon trout that swim;
Fresh-firecoal chestnut-falls; finches’ wings;
Landscape plotted and pieced—fold, fallow, and plough;
And áll trádes, their gear and tackle and trim.

All things counter, original, spare, strange;
Whatever is fickle, freckled (who knows how?)
With swift, slow; sweet, sour; adazzle, dim;
He fathers-forth whose beauty is past change:
Praise him.

5/25/2006 7:22 PM  
Blogger Kyahgirl wrote...

that is just lovely! thanks. :-)
and thanks for visiting my place during my catharsis. better out than in!

5/25/2006 9:26 PM  
Blogger Panacea wrote...

I don't think the link works :( or maybe it's just Quincy being weird as usual.

If you have a sec, tell us how women’s jeans are sized in Italy. I’m curious to know how Europeans treat this matter!

Ahem... after four years here, I think I have finally managed to understand the rather strange sizing system in this country. The smallest women's jeans size I've seen being sold is a 32. Nope, I don't know a single person who can physically get into a 32, but they still insist on selling it. Then the sizes increase to 34, 36,38 etc..

I'm not very sure what these random numbers are supposed to denote, but hey, a thirty-two is a much more substantial figure than a zero.

5/26/2006 12:07 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

Hi, Panacea - :)

It’s not Quincy, it’s me. My linkage went awry.

Hmm… the numbers do seem random if they start at 32. Odd. But no less odd than ZERO! (And more substantial, as you point out.)

“Nope, I don't know a single person who can physically get into a 32, but they still insist on selling it.”

Interesting. I wonder if this is to encourage women to strive for the impossible.

Thanks for the info!

5/26/2006 1:22 PM  
Blogger mysticgypsy wrote...

"I wonder if this is to encourage women to strive for the impossible."

It is interesting how 'striving for the impossible' is both expected and condemned depending on the circumstance. Many societies are not in favor of women's need for indendence. Although the search for independence is daunting and seemingly impossible at first for someone just learning to stand on her own feet, she would find her community more welcoming if she were less driven, if she gave up on reaching for an 'impossible.'

But I think what this is getting at is the struggle for perfection...and the trouble is, in most cases, someone or something decides what perfection means, so each person is constantly trying to live another's dream.

5/26/2006 8:00 PM  
Blogger frankengirl wrote...

MysticGypsy, Yes! :D

You make an excellent distinction here. Perfection – that’s a much better word for my point. And then you take it even further in exploring the ineffability of this so-called “perfection.”

I really like what you write about women’s struggle for autonomy and acceptance and how often these seem to be choices – one or the other.

Have a lovely holiday weekend - :)

5/27/2006 12:04 AM  

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